Never Give Up

Interview with a real mama who is also my sister-in-law. She talks about the resilience it takes to be a contemporary artist, how she manages that alongside motherhood and the power of ideas.

PEOPLE (Plymouth), LOW PROFILE. Photo: Jay Stone.

Hannah is an artist and a curator of an art gallery. Alongside this, she works for Visual Arts South West supporting other artists to thrive. She also happens to be my sister-in-law. Hannah is one of those people who manages to consistently get up at an ungodly hour multiple times a week and exercise - I’m in awe of her energy. She loves wild swimming and a good gin and tonic. She also volunteers her time as a leader at her son’s Cubs club. Hannah lives on the edge of Dartmoor with her husband, her eight-year-old son, her four-year-old daughter and Ron the cat. We chatted on an evening when both our husbands were on bedtime duty. She sat on an armchair in the office at the top of her house as her children played Uno downstairs. When I listened back to the recording of our chat I could intermittently hear a child in the background but it was so faint I couldn’t make out if it was my niece, nephew or son. I found this conversation very grounding and permission-giving. I loved hearing Hannah talk about her art with such conviction. With my son slowly starting nursery this week, it was very reassuring to hear about her positive experience of putting her children in childcare.

Can you tell me about your creative practice as an artist?

I’m a visual artist. I work collaboratively with my friend Rachel and we’ve been working together for just over 21 years under the name LOW PROFILE. Our work is often sited in non-traditional art spaces and in the public realm where people meet it in different ways. Perhaps an event or gathering or workshop.  We often work with text. That might be a large cut vinyl on the facade of a building, a textile banner made with a community or a huge gathering of people making a word with their bodies. Language is often in the work somehow.

We build within communities and work hyper-locally. We’re interested in what it means to create in a place over a long period and make work that is meaningful to the people connected to that place. We often create work in Plymouth and surrounding areas in the South West, we are currently working on a piece in Redruth in Cornwall. Our process is to think backwards from our audience and how they will engage with what we’re making.

I know you do lots of other work alongside LOW PROFILE. I’m interested, do you treat all your work including LOW PROFILE as equal in terms of boundaries, time etc despite presumably earning different levels of income from all the work you do?

That’s a good question. Everything has been about being an artist. I’ve always been asking how can I be an artist? How can I find work that’s going to allow me to do that? Essentially we subsidise our practice - like in the studio today we’ve not earned any money, it’s cost me money with studio rent and petrol. It’s the same for all contemporary visual artists because you’re not selling work every day, you’re not working for commission every day and our work is so project-based. Today we’ve been writing an Arts Council application trying to make this project in Redruth happen and it’s all completely speculative. In August that funding could land and the project would become our main outlet for a year. Or we might not get it and we will have to rebuild and start again. My husband and I have never put pressure on my practice to pay our bills, our other work has done that and we’ve always protected that space. The other jobs I have are also in the creative field and they’re complementary and because I’ve always worked like this I’m quite good at ring-fencing time in my head. It helps to do things on certain days as it gives you a focus. You get good at hat-switching.

My husband could have easily made comments over the years or made me feel bad about the fact that on some days I’m not earning any money and the kids are in childcare, but he understands that it’s the nature of the work. When we do get the gigs it’s great, it’s some extra cash that lets us do what we want as a family. It could be easy to give up because I could be earning a regular income on those days and over the years we would have been financially better off, but it’s the reality of trying to sustain an artistic practice as part of a career.

And how do you manage juggling your creative practice alongside motherhood?

When I was pregnant with my son, Rachel and I spoke about how we were going to have to adjust. Rachel’s always been massively supportive and we’re used to being flexible. The thing about being a mum or a parent or a carer - stuff happens and sometimes you have to say, ‘I can’t do that now, my child is sick.’ There have been times when I haven’t been able to work or one of the kids has had to be in the house or the studio with me. I know plenty of artists who have kids and everyone is just trying to figure out a way to make it work.

Do you ever feel self-doubt or question the energy you’re putting into LOW PROFILE when there are so many other things in your life pulling at you? I guess you need a lot of self-belief and discipline.

Massively. If I was a solo artist I don’t think I’d still be an artist but because we’re so committed to each other and the practice I think that helps. Our time together is so limited that when we show up to work, we both do our hardest to really give it everything, even when we’re sick or have had a shocking night's sleep! Since Covid, we’ve become much clearer about what we care about, what we want to give our energy to and what ‘success’ looks like to us. Our ethos, our values, what the work really is and what it’s doing. We feel comfortable in our practice. We don’t feel like we have anything to prove to ourselves or others, we just want to make things happen that we care about in the limited time that we have.

And what is it that pulls you out of bed to carry on, or in the words of LOW PROFILE ‘Never Give Up’?

Ideas. The thrill of ideas. It’s so exciting when we work together and we come up with something that we think is strong, that we feel good about and that we know we can pull off. I think it’s that. It’s hard work to get to that point but when it happens it’s so exciting. Sometimes I think - God, what happens if we don’t have any more ideas?! But so far there’s always been another idea. Those days in the studio when we feel we have nailed something are so nourishing and it fuels me differently than anything else. My other roles are about supporting others and our practice is about putting that energy into what we want to invest our time in. But I do love supporting artists and the fact that I’m an artist myself has massively informed that work. 

Never Give Up (2013) installed at Exeter Phoenix, LOW PROFILE.

It sounds like it’s the part of your life that is purely for you, which I think as a woman and particularly a mother is important. The fact that you’ve been able to prioritise it even after having kids shows how much a part of your identity it is.

It is for me but it’s also for us, for me and Rachel. We have worked so hard over 21+ years to build our practice and giving up isn’t an option. It’s part of who we are and I’m proud of the work that we’ve made together.

Being an artist has also really supported my other work and arguably has got me those jobs. It means I understand what it takes to keep going in a very real way. I am also applying to those open calls and getting those rejections. I’m also not getting those successful funding bids. I’m also negotiating with partners and trying to work out how to make something happen. I am deeply in the community that I serve. The arts sector is the absolute worst it’s ever been right now. Under Tory rule for so long now, it’s decimated and I see it from both sides. 

I know your children started childcare quite young and have been in nursery full time since they were one. Do you have anything you’d like to say to mums who are just getting ready to enter that phase and might feel guilty or nervous? Asking for a friend!

Everyone’s experience is unique, but for me, those nursery staff are fantastic! They’re these wonderful people who are trained to look after your children and they invested so much into ours. I learnt stuff from them and I valued their input. Both my son and daughter, who are very different to each other, thrived in that environment, which is a wonderful thing to watch as a parent. They developed lots and they seemed to love being there. We haven’t had family nearby, and having that help took the pressure off us, especially when they were tiny.

But of course, there were days when one of them would be screaming, ‘Mummy don’t leave me!’ It’s awful and it breaks your heart but that happens whether they’re in there full-time or one or two days a week, they have no concept of time. When you’re not there, they’re not wondering where you are, they’re playing with the toys, engaging with others and having a nice time. I think it’s more about what’s okay for you and what works for you and your family.

That first time I dropped my son off at nursery he was four months old. He went just one day a week so I could get back to working on LOW PROFILE. I left the pram and was able to walk through town without any physical apparatus or anything attached to me, it was so physically freeing. It felt amazing - I had all this space around my body. I can remember that moment so clearly, that feeling of being physically free, not from him but just from all of the props that come with parenting. It was just me, a bottle of water and a laptop. I could go anywhere and use my brain to spend some time doing the things that I’m invested in.

This is a little bonus question. What’s it like watching your little brother be a dad out in the world?

It’s joyful. He just loves you both so much and you’re such a lush little unit. You know what he’s like, he’s a real worrier but it comes from a place of love and it’s really sweet. Seeing him totally embrace it is lovely. I can’t wait to see my nephew grow up and get to witness all the different stages again. To learn about what music he likes and what kind of personality he has and then to see my brother as the dad of that person. It all feels really fresh but at the same time when you’re in the trenches of it I know it can be really hard, sometimes I feel like I mentally missed moments with my son. Watching you guys helps me to remember it all.

What would you say to yourself when you first left the hospital that day as a new mum?

It’s such a cliche but just to not be so hard on myself. I found the first six months really hard because it seemed like there were certain ways of doing things and I was getting it all wrong. It felt like the labour was meant to be a certain way or that I was meant to be feeding him in a certain way or that sleep was meant to be a certain way, all those key things. I had no idea what I was doing and it was a massive shock to the system even though we wanted it. Although I had good friends and family it just felt like a hugely isolating experience and I spent a lot of time in my head overthinking. I was so uptight and I didn’t enjoy it in the way that I could have. With my daughter, it was so different because I allowed myself to relax and I’ve been able to be more present for those early years. I’ve been way more laid back about every aspect of it, but I think that’s a really hard thing to do the first time around. I wish I’d had the confidence to realise that all that was important was that I was okay and he was okay and whatever worked to make that happen was the best route for both of us. All any of us can do is our best.

Thank you so much Hannah for sharing your time, voice and personal insights.